tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6275804374019732213.comments2024-03-16T08:53:04.609-07:00Book of Mormon settingjonathan3dhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05379975395372054926noreply@blogger.comBlogger693125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6275804374019732213.post-10588383838302166672024-03-16T08:53:04.609-07:002024-03-16T08:53:04.609-07:00Wow, I felt like Murph was unprepared to interview...Wow, I felt like Murph was unprepared to interview you. I sure hope he reconsiders how myopic M2C can be. Roryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15464871210618980262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6275804374019732213.post-78478911296522154332024-03-08T10:55:10.069-08:002024-03-08T10:55:10.069-08:00awe shucks. no preview. It's a complication of...awe shucks. no preview. It's a complication of captain kirk. Roryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15464871210618980262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6275804374019732213.post-77867647716513166362024-03-08T10:53:26.292-08:002024-03-08T10:53:26.292-08:00IYKYK.
https://youtu.be/wbzNYbvAI-Y?si=bdyUYmMNaB...IYKYK. <br />https://youtu.be/wbzNYbvAI-Y?si=bdyUYmMNaBIuusI9Roryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15464871210618980262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6275804374019732213.post-56105930939963125242024-03-06T00:37:53.197-08:002024-03-06T00:37:53.197-08:00This comment has been hidden from the blog.Bruce Lloydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16219324727160081128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6275804374019732213.post-39807025808313877892024-03-05T13:43:42.348-08:002024-03-05T13:43:42.348-08:00This comment has been hidden from the blog.Bruce Lloydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16219324727160081128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6275804374019732213.post-59610073674642252692024-03-04T13:17:37.440-08:002024-03-04T13:17:37.440-08:00This comment has been hidden from the blog.Jay Mackleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08026681569372577371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6275804374019732213.post-75486464745198806242024-03-04T11:25:06.931-08:002024-03-04T11:25:06.931-08:00This comment has been hidden from the blog.Rianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11013039229657311399noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6275804374019732213.post-56739586548659690022024-03-03T20:26:43.037-08:002024-03-03T20:26:43.037-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13471693130505643673noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6275804374019732213.post-21603926768182656382024-03-03T15:39:15.189-08:002024-03-03T15:39:15.189-08:00Read this by Joseph Fielding McConkie, “… On anot...Read this by Joseph Fielding McConkie, “… On another occasion, Dad suggested to me that all scripture is given with sufficient ambiguity that those desiring to misconstrue or misuse it will be able to do so. This, he held, was very deliberate on the Lord's part, for the way we interpret scripture becomes a measure not only of our understanding but also of our spiritual integrity…”<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Roryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15464871210618980262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6275804374019732213.post-87168047431730704262024-01-06T11:47:27.358-08:002024-01-06T11:47:27.358-08:00I get the overall impression from this blog that y...I get the overall impression from this blog that you are doing the very things you are accusing your critics of doing. Uncharitable assumptions and mischaracterizations are being made against them instead of making an effort of trying to be understanding and forgiving towards them, instead of trying to make an effort to understand their point of view. In disagreements such as this there is always fault to be found on both sides. This comes across as furthering contention rather than trying to heal it. I'm sure both sides can do more to heal rather than make it worse, but it always starts with one side or the other reaching out in an effort to understand and appreciate the other point of view. I would be more sympathetic to your line of reasoning if you were reaching out with a healing balm instead of a stink bomb.Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11724116991185105280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6275804374019732213.post-25654625933351885912023-09-10T13:19:27.825-07:002023-09-10T13:19:27.825-07:00Hi Kerry! Apologists should welcome constructive c...Hi Kerry! Apologists should welcome constructive criticism, and critics should welcome constructive criticism of their criticism. So, too, should apologists welcome constructive criticism from other apologists. <br /><br />I believe the answers to the Book of Abraham issues exist and ultimately will be illuminated, and that the work I've done has helped - but I also am open to criticism. The problem is the LACK of criticism. The LACK of engagement and feedback. So, I appreciate the times when you have addressed some of the arguments I've made, even though we ultimately disagree. Love you Kerry. Ryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17623980118764230707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6275804374019732213.post-52397531350359897122023-08-27T06:31:02.451-07:002023-08-27T06:31:02.451-07:00I visited the Whitmer farm and I was amazed that t...I visited the Whitmer farm and I was amazed that two major talking points from the sister missionaries on their tour focused on the seer stone and the Mary Whitmer's visit from "Moroni." What a different vibe it was than walking through the grove, walking through Cumorah. Why do they push it so hard?<br /><br />I realize that most people might think it insignificant how Joseph Smith obtained, translated, and brought forth the Book of Mormon. I have many family and friends who have told me they don't care. I'm calling everyone's bluff with you. To your point, these same people are heart-broken and surprised when their children willingly break their temple covenants, walk away, and/remove their names willingly from the Church. . <br /><br />All of these things you bring up matter to the opposition, because it works as an offense. It's one of the many tactics, but a vicious one-- it's taking a sledgehammer to the keystone. <br /><br />Roryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15464871210618980262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6275804374019732213.post-24769105964786545142023-04-29T07:20:13.283-07:002023-04-29T07:20:13.283-07:00We shall see. I personally remain skeptical, and a...We shall see. I personally remain skeptical, and am in the process of putting together some serious responses to their continuing outdated approach, which I believe they know it is outdated, but cannot come up to snuff. It would threaten their own employment and the church's truth status. It appears to be that serious to me personally, and I shall engage with it as I have time.<br /><br />I agree we CAN come into a new age of dialogue on this Book of Abraham, but I have serious doubts it will actually occur. The evidence is against it being true, and that is not something anyone in the church wants to hear or see. But, I can be corrected as well, so long as it is valid evidence and good methodology, all of which has not existed within the church, on this issue, since day one.Kerry Shirtshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11071947829451013579noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6275804374019732213.post-15665224729432073812023-04-29T07:15:44.926-07:002023-04-29T07:15:44.926-07:00Excellent points, all. And I agree the Mormon Disc...Excellent points, all. And I agree the Mormon Discussions Inc is agenda driven, but everyone is. The agenda is the truth, not the censored truth because the Church does not want to see or acknowledge the consequences of their own teachings and actions in relation to both history and doctrine. There are problems, and ignoring them or deflecting away from the analysis of said problems by calling it anti-Mormon is playing word games, even when the leaders do so, and have their own paid scholars do so for them in firesides we see being put up all over the internet. <br /><br />I am a part of the group Mormon Discussion Inc., and find that yes the issues are HARD, but not because of our agenda, but because of how the church has chosen to handle things and hide information. When the church itself comes clean, we will simply have no reason to continue existing as a group. It is quite that simple. <br /><br />We are the gadflies because there is no reason for anyone to become complicit with the deceptions, as we see them. We are open to being corrected, but it has to be with actual and credible evidence, not prophetic authority thundering down on our heads, or mere strawman name calling to poison the well of discourse and understanding of all of the evidence and its consequences.<br /><br /> We don't recognize their authority, they have abused it to where they no longer have it. That is the stance and understanding, using Joseph Smith's own revelations about the church that both the "Interpreters" and the church ignores. We aim on bringing it to light.<br /><br />True, we can always try to do so nicer, and shall do so, but we have an interesting in truth, not faith-promoting agendas... thanks for listening and looking forward to some great and useful discussions.Kerry Shirtshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11071947829451013579noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6275804374019732213.post-90933489827023153432023-04-29T07:03:01.377-07:002023-04-29T07:03:01.377-07:00I too will be making "Response" videos a...I too will be making "Response" videos as I have time. I am entirely on board with having a discussion and looking into all sides and the consequences the evidence brings out. It is the consequences that the "Interpreters" do not like to have aired, and that's tough beans from my side. I am not trying to be contentious here, I am just saying OWN IT when you proclaim it, and all the consequences that follow from your arguments and evidences. The Church has been far too shy and acting shyster with not owning its position and instead attempting to make everything faith-promoting. I am seriously against that Boyd K. Packer tactic, just so everyone knows what angle I am coming from. If I get heated a bit, cool me down, but talking through all this can only be a good thing, and I am more than willing to attempt participating in it and with it. You are a good man Jonathan, I respect that enormously.Kerry Shirtshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11071947829451013579noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6275804374019732213.post-64681183046465912192023-04-29T06:58:08.259-07:002023-04-29T06:58:08.259-07:00When I blog, and seeing your blogging here has con...When I blog, and seeing your blogging here has convinced me I need to start a new one of my own, and I share valid information and if someone was to ask me to take it down, if it was truthful, I would not be self - censoring as you were. Perhaps you are the better for it, but the antics displayed deserves to be blogged about until they change their tactics. The videos of themselves on Bill Reel's program is the most damning evidence. It is from their own mouths. To be asked by one of them to take down observations based on evidence would not happen if it was me. I would tell them put up your own information don't ask me to censor mine. That is so Mormon church leadership tactics to HIDE information that it raises the hackles on me. It is this kind of one sided thinking, censorship, and hiding that I am absolutely opposed to when it comes to Church History. This is a very fine analysis and discussion, and I will be jumping into it as I can. Thanks for all the efforts to keep things on the level and upside for all to see the total picture.Kerry Shirtshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11071947829451013579noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6275804374019732213.post-78559973583235720202023-04-29T06:49:50.081-07:002023-04-29T06:49:50.081-07:00I really enjoy how you are showing the comparisons...I really enjoy how you are showing the comparisons with color, Mike in blue, your responses in black. That is very helpful. While I have only time for the moment to be skimming to get a general drift, I am convinced your way of sharing the dialogue here is extremely useful and well done. Thank you for the efforts to clarify Jonathan.Kerry Shirtshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11071947829451013579noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6275804374019732213.post-42069913140310805472023-04-29T06:48:00.368-07:002023-04-29T06:48:00.368-07:00It is tedious, but that is not a negative. I, for ...It is tedious, but that is not a negative. I, for one, seriously appreciate the great care and comparison and discussion of differing points of view, and the different assumptions, and the back and forth with which kind of philosophy we are using to see the evidences. This is a well done comparison and clarifies a lot in a tremendous way.Kerry Shirtshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11071947829451013579noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6275804374019732213.post-43475041996692943432023-04-29T06:33:59.734-07:002023-04-29T06:33:59.734-07:00Remarkably interesting, and I hope this continues ...Remarkably interesting, and I hope this continues as a blog for decades Jonathan. I agree, I am on the other end of the spectrum for the time. Yet the idea of actually discussing things out without rancor and seeing all evidences and how to interpret them even though, for now, I don't see them pointing to a good end with Joseph Smith in the lead, is a seriously attractive one to me. I am more than willing to participate in the discussion, the analysis of the evidence, the consequences of where they lead (this is the big one for me against having belief), and having friends and scholars to assess and read new materials as they come out. I am seriously and pleasantly looking forward to the future with you all.Kerry Shirtshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11071947829451013579noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6275804374019732213.post-35072671062094065482023-04-21T14:23:11.665-07:002023-04-21T14:23:11.665-07:00May I send a personal message to you, please? May I send a personal message to you, please? Jannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12322474589769945417noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6275804374019732213.post-19200229691930442882022-12-22T10:05:19.166-08:002022-12-22T10:05:19.166-08:00I can confirm the truth of what Jonathan is saying...I can confirm the truth of what Jonathan is saying. I have been actively involved with expeditions of the heartland movement for about three years. We do boots on the ground research and seminars. My association with supporters has been with mainstream LDS, members of various restorationist branches and other christians and including native Americans, African Americans and people outside the USA. The only thread in common among these supporters has been a love for the Book of Mormon or an interest its narrative. Hannah Seariac and Brandt Gardner have not been involved in the least and basically do not know anything about Heartland supporters. So they are just pushing their own personal agendas. We have reached out to them only to be maligned. If they would reach out to us I am pretty sure any misunderstandings could be cleared up.Jay Mackleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08026681569372577371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6275804374019732213.post-83283224330357645812022-12-12T07:13:08.744-08:002022-12-12T07:13:08.744-08:00Thank you for posting this.Thank you for posting this.ephttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12438117346559683118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6275804374019732213.post-80808602241158061602022-12-01T08:48:47.239-08:002022-12-01T08:48:47.239-08:00DCS could provide the functionality of greater tha...DCS could provide the functionality of greater than one of the aforementioned DCS sorts (e.g., DCS 3/3/1 which mixes functionality of DCS 3/3 and DCS 3/1). For such DCS, the requirements will be, minimal of|no less than}, the aggregation of requirements on the "element" DCS. Interconnection is between a DSX or LGX to a Switch, one other Cross Connection, or different service platform device. Online means transactions via electronic data-interchange whether actual time transactions or otherwise, which may be via the internet, <a href="https://petrifypoint.com/" rel="nofollow">바카라사이트</a> intranet networks and the like. For every spin, the twin reels can increase to turn into three, 4 and even five-doubled reels.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6275804374019732213.post-53188387535686478122022-11-24T10:04:47.780-08:002022-11-24T10:04:47.780-08:00The Indians, “…who have no way of traveling except...The Indians, “…who have no way of traveling except on the Hoof, make nothing of going 25 miles a day, and carrying their little Necessities at their backs, and Sometimes a Stout Pack of Skins into the bargain." (William Byrd's Histories of the Dividing Line Betwixt Virginia and North Carolina. New York: Dover Publications, 1987. Page 266.)<br /><br />There is a raft of evidence either through oral tradition or record of history. These people knew how to move! I mean, they could cover hundreds of miles on foot and by river or short periods of time. If running, they could cover more! 50 miles a day on foot! 100 miles a day on foot! Running isn’t against the rules for these Meso guys, is it? Roryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15464871210618980262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6275804374019732213.post-5736190374679794292022-11-20T18:31:22.979-08:002022-11-20T18:31:22.979-08:00This comment from that is especially alarming, eve...This comment from that is especially alarming, even sad for me to read: “I've toyed with the idea that God just translated the Lehites to another world (Lehite Valinor) with a pristine geography after they set sail and then warped one of Hagoth's lost boats back to our world's Americas, but that seems too weird even for me. Then again, I worship a Man who was dead for three days and rose again and then sent an angel to tell a teenager to dig some gold plates out of a hill and translate them using a rock so maybe I should stop worrying and embrace the weird.”<br /><br />I just don’t see it how these people are so confused. If you miss this, you miss so much of the latter-day prophecies, you won’t know what to look for! the deception is incredible. Is like Nephi said, “ I am left to mourn because of the unbelief, and the wickedness, and the ignorance, and the stiffneckedness of men; for they will not search knowledge, nor understand great knowledge, when it is given unto them in plainness, even as plain as word can be.”Roryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15464871210618980262noreply@blogger.com