tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6275804374019732213.post8228822638299582404..comments2024-03-26T10:31:54.453-07:00Comments on Book of Mormon setting: Fun with Zelphjonathan3dhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05379975395372054926noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6275804374019732213.post-14587342923480726682018-09-13T11:42:17.545-07:002018-09-13T11:42:17.545-07:00Wait, what? There was a chamber found in the Hill ...Wait, what? There was a chamber found in the Hill Cumorah in 2006? Where can I find that account please?Russhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12774146427318731877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6275804374019732213.post-56911091967781858622017-07-10T21:15:58.028-07:002017-07-10T21:15:58.028-07:00There is a curious concluding "So" at th...There is a curious concluding "So" at the end of the article... :Dlittlerascohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10615353996674116835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6275804374019732213.post-91919373234240931042017-07-10T18:46:15.998-07:002017-07-10T18:46:15.998-07:00Hi Johnathan - I tried posting on BOM Central FB p...Hi Johnathan - I tried posting on BOM Central FB page today... I had fun for 5 minutes until they deleted my posts. The most intriguing thing about my 3 posts... was one of them was a link to the Joseph Smith papers pointing out that the handwriting of the Bernhisel letter has not been identified. I pointed out that as scholars they should not be attributing something to Joseph Smith. So now they don't like links from "joseph Smith papers" even when they want to quote them themselves.<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03753736296935148665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6275804374019732213.post-79662201137998665522017-07-10T08:40:51.803-07:002017-07-10T08:40:51.803-07:00I appreciate Zander's comment. I hope readers ...I appreciate Zander's comment. I hope readers here don't criticize Zander, who is a great guy. We just have to remember that Mesomania is a difficult challenge to overcome.<br /><br />The quotation Zander provided from Woodruff is from September 13th, 1841, when he was reading the Stephens books on his way to Nauvoo from New York. I include this quotation in my book titled The Editors: Joseph, William and Don Carlos Smith (available on Amazon) because it is important evidence that it was Wilford Woodruff who wrote the Bernhisel letter, a letter often quoted by Mesoamerican proponents as proof that Joseph Smith read the Stephens letters. That letter is a critical part of their misinformation campaign as they try to persuade people that Joseph Smith "dabbled in" the Mesoamerican theory, which is a euphemism for their claim that was an ignorant speculator who misled the Church about Cumorah being in New York.<br /><br />What they don't tell you is none of Joseph's contemporaries, including Woodruff, questioned the New York Cumorah. <br /><br />As Zander's comment illustrates, the Mesoamerican advocates have such a high level of cognitive dissonance that they actually believe they are "the most open to all evidences and context combined," yet they outright (and adamantly) reject the only explicit and detailed statement about Book of Mormon geography that we have from Joseph and Oliver; i.e., Letter VII.<br /><br />Zander's employer, Book of Mormon Central, is committed to the goal of increasing "understanding of the Book of Mormon as an ancient Mesoamerican codex." They are only open to evidence that furthers this goal, which is why the exclude any contradictory evidence from their archive and include in that database attacks on alternative models without even giving those models a chance to respond.<br /><br />In my view, Book of Mormon Central started out with respectable aspirations, but it has degenerated into just another iteration of the worst of FARMS, all because of Mesomania.jonathan3dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05379975395372054926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6275804374019732213.post-49065823496790888502017-07-08T22:01:56.883-07:002017-07-08T22:01:56.883-07:00"Mesoamerican theory being the most open to a..."Mesoamerican theory being the most open to all evidences and context combined" except Letter VII, the testimony of the three witnesses, the Hopewell and Adena archeology record, the Bone pits of western New York, the context of the ancient word for seas, the parallels off the New Madrid earthquake and the destruction prior to Christ's visiting the Nephites, the voyage of replica 600 bc sailing ship from the Arabian peninsula into the Atlantic, Micmac characters and the striking similarity to the Anthon transcript, metallurgy in pre Columbian North America, abundance of cultured pearls found in Hopewell archeology sites, the animals needed for the law of Moses only found in North America, and the chamber discovered in the Hill Cumorah, NY, in 2006. The Mesoamerican theorists are open up to a lot of things that the Heartlanders are not. Such as Cumorah (pronoun) being two places, narrow (adjective) being only in one place, Lehi's group sailing against every known current in two oceans to arrive in mesoamerica, Joseph Smith and the three witnesses expressing opinions and being mistaken, substitute animals for the Law of Moses, and mission to the Lamanites being wrong people. I can see where "most open" comes from.David Crandallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04663657405272474160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6275804374019732213.post-7409521055208129192017-07-07T21:22:17.242-07:002017-07-07T21:22:17.242-07:00While we are taking Wilford Woodruff accounts into...While we are taking Wilford Woodruff accounts into context, lets add this one, "I felt truly interested in this work for it brought to light a flood of testimony in proof of the book of mormon in the discovery & survey of the city Copan in Central America." So supposedly this Zelph incident did little to convince him of the Heartland theory.<br /><br />The context from all statements makes it pretty clear that all the early leaders had a hemispheric model in mind. I don't think it is so literal, fundamental, or doctrinal, as Heartlanders think it is, because of the fact that Joseph Smith himself let all this happen, and even dabbled in it. I know you have your excuses for things Joseph Smith did, but to me, it's just Heartlanders already having a false conclusion, and making the evidences fit it.<br /><br />I see the Mesoamerican theory being the most open to all evidences and context combined. And letting the evidences lead it.Zander Sturgillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04075349776831369503noreply@blogger.com