Countdown to Cumorah - September 2025

Some readers here don't know about my blog on Cumorah on www.lettervii.com.

On that blog, we're doing a countdown to the rededication of the Hill Cumorah in New York on September 21st. 

Check it out.

A tribute to Charlie Kirk

I posted this here:

https://dailyjonathanedwards.blogspot.com/2025/09/charlie-kirk-and-other-saints.html

But I'm cross-posting it here.

For Charlie Kirk and everyone else who has been murdered, this is an excerpt from the funeral address for David Brainerd, by Jonathan Edwards:

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As if he had said, 

"This is not the time and place for that freedom, your love to me desires: that is appointed in heaven, after my ascension. I am going thither: and you that are my true disciples, shall, as my brethren and companions, soon be there with me in my glory. 

And then there shall be no restraint. 

That is the place appointed for the most perfect expressions of complacence and endearment, and full enjoyment of mutual love." 

And accordingly the souls of departed saints with Christ in heaven, shall have Christ as it were unbosomed unto them, manifesting those infinite riches of love towards them, that have been there from eternity: and they shall be enabled to express their love to him, in an infinitely better manner than ever they could while in the body. 

Thus they shall eat and drink abundantly, and swim in the ocean of love, and be eternally swallowed up in the infinitely bright, and infinitely mild and sweet beams of divine love; eternally receiving that light, eternally full of it, and eternally compassed round with it, and everlastingly reflecting it back again to the fountain of it.

http://edwards.yale.edu/archive?path=aHR0cDovL2Vkd2FyZHMueWFsZS5lZHUvY2dpLWJpbi9uZXdwaGlsby9nZXRvYmplY3QucGw/Yy4yNDoxNC53amVvLjY4MDQ4My42ODA0ODg=

End of M2C, blog purpose and Church History conference

The end of M2C is accelerating as more and more Latter-day Saints make informed decisions.

I'm fine with people believing whatever they want, but every scholar owes it to readers to provide all the relevant facts. That's why I urge people to use the FAITH model, which separates facts from assumptions, inferences, theories, and hypotheses.

The purpose of this blog parallels what Elon Musk is doing with Grok:

ELON MUSK: Grok uses massive inference compute to scan the corpus of human knowledge - books, PDFs, websites, detecting falsehoods, fixing half-truths, and adding missing context. “It’s like rewriting Wikipedia, but accurate.”

The scholars who promote M2C and SITH consistently omit important, relevant context, including fundamental historical records and extrinsic evidence. But their monopoly over LDS scholarship has eroded to the point where even ordinary Latter-day Saints like me can learn what they've tried to suppress for so long.

Basically, like many other Latter-day Saints, I believe Joseph and Oliver told the truth about the origin and setting of the Book of Mormon. Their teachings are explicit, unambiguous, and consistent. Plus their teachings are corroborated by extrinsic evidence.

Recently people have asked me to apply the FAITH model to more of the M2C/SITH narratives. Regular readers of this blog can do that for themselves because they have the information that most Latter-day Saints do not have.

One ongoing project is organizing the content of these blogs to make them more accessible. Details coming.

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The Church History Department sponsored an exceptional conference on Sept 5-6, 2025. The theme was  "I Am in Your Midst" Jesus Christ at the Center of Church History.

https://churchhistory.cventevents.com/event/2025conference/speakers

I commented on the conference here with some suggestions for improvement next time:

https://www.ldshistoricalnarratives.com/2025/09/church-history-conference-sept-2025.html

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An excellent summary by Jacob Hess was published in the Deseret News:

https://www.deseret.com/faith/2025/09/07/jesus-christ-at-the-center-of-church-history/

The byline: 

An exclusive focus on human struggle in the past misses the most important action taking place, say historians with the Church of Jesus Christ

I completely agree with that byline and the theme of the conference. I'm incorporating that theme into my presentations and publications going forward, and I hope everyone else does as well.

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Some classic memes

For new readers, M2C is the "Mesoamerican/two-Cumorahs" theory that rejects what Joseph and Oliver taught about the New York Cumorah/Ramah.

E.g., see Letter VII, here: http://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/history-1834-1836/90

This is a collection of memes from the past.

 

M2C, SITH, and de-correlating Joseph and Oliver

The ongoing "de-correlation" of what Joseph and Oliver taught about the origin and setting of the Book of Mormon continues to pose problems. 

A recent Wall St. Journal story titled "‘Exmo’ Influencers Mount a TikTok War Against the Mormon Church" claims that these influencers "question some of the Book of Mormon’s claims, pointing to a lack of archaeological evidence, dissect leaders’ efforts to modernize, and share snapshots of the happier lives they find outside the church." 

https://www.wsj.com/tech/ex-mormon-tiktok-creators-e9a5b00e?mod=hp_lead_pos9

While several issues are discussed in the article, the article and comments refer to SITH and M2C, which are the focus of this blog.  

Think how different the conversation would be if faithful LDS influencers supported and corroborated what Joseph and Oliver taught instead of refuting and arguing against what they taught.

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One useful response to the article is here:

https://x.com/TeeplesCY/status/1963294345206825202

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The article juxtaposed images of two well-known influencers, the exmo Alyssa Grenfell and the faithful Latter-day Saint Jasmine Rappleye.

Jasmine is awesome. She promotes positive messages and gives faithful explanations. 

Except that she, too, has repudiated what Joseph and Oliver taught about the origin and setting of the Book of Mormon.

Let's start with SITH (the stone-in-the-hat narrative).

Jasmine used Anthony Sweat's illustration of the 1834 Mormonism Unvailed SITH narrative to refute what Joseph and Oliver taught about the translation.

Jasmine promoting SITH

She's far from alone. 

Sweat's illustration of Mormonism Unvailed dominates the presentations by leading LDS scholars who, like Jasmine, reject what Joseph and Oliver taught.

Somehow, they have rationalized that promoting Mormonism Unvailed is a good idea. They are enthusiastic and happy about it. 

But for many Latter-day Saints, it is cringy to see these scholars smiling as they promote Mormonism Unvailed while they de-correlate what Joseph and Oliver taught.

Background. When critics such as the 1834 book Mormonism Unvailed claimed that (i) Joseph used a "peep stone" to produce the Book of Mormon without even referring to the plates, and that (ii) the Book of Mormon was fiction based on Solomon Spalding's book, Joseph and Oliver responded promptly, clearly, and specifically--in formal publications.

Their explanations were reiterated by their contemporaries and successors in Church leadership for decades. Their explanations are corroborated by extrinsic evidence.

But eventually certain RLDS and LDS scholars decided that Joseph and Oliver, either ignorantly or intentionally, misled everyone about the origin and setting of the Book of Mormon. For years, they have taught their theories to innumerable Latter-day Saint students, to the point that now, what Joseph and Oliver taught has vanished from Church curriculum, the Gospel Topics Essays, and the narratives promoted by even faithful social media influencers.

This opens the door for the exmo influencers and leaves Latter-day Saints confused.

Think how different the situation would be if instead every Latter-day Saint knew and believed what Joseph and Oliver taught and how they responded to the critics.

Origin of the Book of Mormon

Joseph and Oliver explicitly explained that Joseph translated the plates by means of the Urim and Thummim that came with the plates.

Some examples.

Joseph Smith: 

Question 4th. How, and where did you obtain the Book of Mormon?

Answer. Moroni, the person who deposited the plates, from whence the Book of Mormon   was translated, in a hill in Manchester, Ontario County, New York, being dead, and raised again therefrom, appeared unto me and told me where they were and gave me directions how to obtain them. I obtained them and the Urim and Thummim with them, by the means of which I translated the plates and thus came the Book of Mormon.

Oliver Cowdery: 

He [Moroni] said this history was written and deposited not far from that place, and that it was our brother’s privilege, if obedient to the commandments of the Lord, to obtain and translate the same by the means of the Urim and Thummim, which were deposited for that purpose with the record.

Oliver Cowdery describes these events thus: “These were days never to be forgotten—to sit under the sound of a voice dictated by the inspiration of heaven, awakened the utmost gratitude of this bosom! Day after day I continued, uninterrupted, to write from his mouth, as he translated with the Urim and Thummim, or, as the Nephites would have said, ‘Interpreters,’ the history or record called ‘The Book of Mormon.’

(Joseph Smith—History 1:71, Note, 1)

Modern scholars: 

Although Joseph and Oliver explicitly explained that Joseph translated the plates by means of the Urim and Thummim that came with the plates, they were wrong. Church members should not even know what they taught. Instead, Latter-day Saints should accept the scholarly theories.

Royal Skousen: 

"Joseph Smith’s claim that he used the Urim and Thummim is only partially true; and Oliver Cowdery’s statements that Joseph used the original instrument while he, Oliver, was the scribe appear to be intentionally misleading."

Gospel Topics Essay:

- omits everything in JS-H, Note 1 after "heaven" to censor what Oliver said about the Urim and Thummim

- omits everything Joseph and Oliver taught about the Urim and Thummim and instead falsely claims that (i) "Joseph Smith and his scribes wrote of two instruments used in translating the Book of Mormon" and (ii)"Joseph Smith and his associates often used the term “Urim and Thummim” to refer to the single stone as well as the interpreters." 

Anthony Sweat:

Illustrates the Mormonism Unvailed narrative which becomes ubiquitous.

Gerrit Dirkmaat:

Promotes SITH by publishing an imaginary narrative about the 1829 Jonathan Hadley article on the first page of this book.

Rough Stone Rolling. The book Rough Stone Rolling promotes SITH with selective edits and omissions of original sources, as discussed here:

https://www.mobom.org/rsr-review

There are many more examples of scholars promoting SITH in the pages of the Interpreter, the FAIRLDS website, Meridian Magazine, etc., as well as in some faithful and exmo podcasts and other social media influencers.

Despite the efforts of the critics and faithful scholars to de-correlate them, the teachings of Joseph and Oliver are also available for everyone to see.

One compilation is here: https://www.mobom.org/church-history-issues

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Setting of the Book of Mormon

The question of Book of Mormon historicity was raised in Mormonism Unvailed, which promoted the Solomon Spalding theory (that Joseph and Sidney Rigdon produced the Book of Mormon by adapting a novel by Spalding, which Joseph then read from behind a curtain or "vail.")

Oliver Cowdery explicitly refuted the Spalding theory when he explained it was a fact that the hill Cumorah in New York is the same hill Cumorah/Ramah mentioned in the Book of Mormon. Oliver explained that Moroni told Joseph the history was "written and deposited not far from" Joseph's home near Palmyra. Oliver also explained that the repository of Nephite records was in the same hill, but in a separate location from Moroni's stone box. 

Anyone can read this in the Joseph Smith Papers and other sources, such as these:

http://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/history-1834-1836/90

https://www.mobom.org/cumorah-overview

We can all see that Joseph Smith learned the name of the hill directly from Moroni before he even got the plates, that he and his family referred to the hill by name before he translated the plates, that the messenger to whom Joseph gave the abridged plates before leaving Harmony went to Cumorah before bringing the plates of Nephi to Fayette, etc. 

This was all well-known during Joseph's lifetime, just like the Urim and Thummim narrative was.

But an RLDS scholar named L.E. Hills rejected the New York Cumorah and published a map in 1917 that became the basis for the Mesoamerican/Two-Cumorahs theory (M2C) that has been widely adopted by LDS scholars such as John Sorenson, Jack Welch, and Dan Peterson, which they have heavily promoted in their various publications.

These M2C scholars have successfully mainstreamed the narrative that Joseph and Oliver either ignorantly or deliberately misled everyone about the setting of the Book of Mormon, specifically the hill Cumorah/Ramah in New York.

Jasmine has heavily promoted M2C. Her followers are very familiar with her M2C beliefs.

Other prominent LDS scholars continue to promote the M2C narrative that Joseph and Oliver misled everyone about Cumorah.

The different approaches boil down to this:

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Think back to the Wall St. Journal article. 

Think how different the conversation would be if all the faithful LDS influencers supported and corroborated what Joseph and Oliver taught instead of refuting and arguing against what they taught.

4 million views and counting

Missionary work has come a long ways since the 1830s, but the message is the same.

Mostly.

The message of the gospel is the same, but other things have been, let's say, de-correlated.

Back then, Samuel Smith and Orson Hyde explained that Joseph translated the plates by means of the Urim and Thummim, which is what Joseph and Oliver always taught.

Back then, Oliver explained it was a fact that the hill Cumorah in New York is the hill Cumorah/Ramah in the Book of Mormon.

In our day, few Latter-day Saints even know what they taught about the origin and setting of the Book of Mormon when Joseph Smith was still alive.

But that's changing as more and more Latter-day Saints learn what all of Joseph's contemporaries knew, but which certain prominent LDS scholars have rejected.

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For some time now, people have asked me to do more on social media, including YouTube, X, Instagram, and even FB. I don't have the time, but people say I can use an AI agent to do it.

When I returned from a recent trip I noticed that the google stats said the cumulative page views of my blogs exceeded 4 million in the last week or so.

Maybe we can reach 5 million by September 22, 2025.

That means everyone who reads one of my blogs should share it widely on social media.

:)

Besides this one, the most popular blogs are:

https://www.lettervii.com/

https://www.ldshistoricalnarratives.com/

https://nomorecontention.blogspot.com/

https://howtozion.blogspot.com/

https://presidentnelsonspeaks.blogspot.com/

For overall resources, the best site is Museum of the Book of Mormon:

https://www.mobom.org/home

Church History conference, Jonathan Edwards, etc.

The evidence that Joseph translated the plates continues to accumulate. I uploaded an annotation of 1 Nephi 1 to Mobom, here:

https://www.mobom.org/bm-kjv-and-je-1-nephi-1

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In somewhat related news, this week (5-6 Sept) there is a Church History Conference in SLC. The list of speakers is here.

https://churchhistory.cventevents.com/event/2025conference/speakers

I'm sure it will be interesting, informative, and inspirational. I encourage everyone to watch and/or attend.

I say that with two caveats, both of whom are great guys, faithful Latter-day Saints, smart, etc., but both of whom promote the SITH/M2C narratives.

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One of the speakers, Anthony Sweat, created the infamous illustration of Mormonism Unvailed's translation narrative. This widely distributed illustration has normalized E.D. Howe's anti-Mormon narrative that Joseph and Oliver successfully refuted--until a handful of LDS scholars revived it in recent years. 

For anyone not familiar with Mormonism Unvailed, here is the narrative that book set out, which Brother Sweat illustrated and teaches:

The translation finally commenced. They were found to contain a language not now known upon the earth, which they termed "reformed Egyptian characters." The plates, therefore, which had been so much talked of, were found to be of no manner of use. After all, the Lord showed and communicated to him every word and letter of the Book. Instead of looking at the characters inscribed upon the plates, the prophet was obliged to resort to the old ''pecp stone," which he formerly used in money-digging. This he placed in a hat, or box, into which he also thrust his face. Through the stone he could then discover a single word at a time, which he repeated aloud to his amanuensis, who committed it to paper, when another word would immediately appear, and thus the performance continued to the end of the book.

https://archive.org/details/mormonismunvaile00howe/page/18/mode/2up?q=Urim

It continues to amaze me that Brother Sweat and other LDS scholars have embraced the Mormonism Unvailed narrative. They simply reject what Joseph and Oliver consistently and repeatedly taught. I discussed that here:

https://www.ldshistoricalnarratives.com/p/the-sith-problem-1829-2024.html 

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Another speaker, Keith Erekson, famously teaches that the sword of Laban was in Moroni's stone box, contrary to the explicit descriptions from Joseph and Oliver. 

He relies on a late recollection by Joseph's sister, who did not even say the sword was in the stone box. But Keith seems obsessed with supporting M2C (and SITH), which requires people to teach and convince Latter-day Saints that the sword could not have been in the repository in the Hill Cumorah in New York (again, contrary to all the historical accounts) because, according to M2C, the "real Cumorah" is yet to be found in southern Mexico.

https://www.ldshistoricalnarratives.com/p/real-vs-rumor-keith-ereksons-failed.html

People can believe whatever they want, of course. 

But it is not cool when historians promote their private theories by suppressing and even censoring authentic, faithful historical accounts by the principals, in this case Joseph and Oliver, solely to promote the private theories of a handful of scholars, in this case the advocated of M2C (the Mesoamerican/two-Cumorahs theory.)

M2C to NYC and SITH in the SLTrib

It's cool to see people learning about what Joseph and Oliver said, as opposed to what certain historians and other intellectuals teach.

On social media, more and more people are posting about changing their minds from M2C to the New York Cumorah. 

On a related topic, I posted comments about an article in the SLTrib regarding SITH (the stone-in-the-hat narrative).

https://www.ldshistoricalnarratives.com/2025/08/sltrib-repeats-sith-narrative.html

For those new to this blog, relevant historical sources about the origin and setting of the Book of Mormon are collected here:

https://www.mobom.org/church-history-issues

X2a haplogroup post

This post below has made lots of guest appearances on X. It presents some facts, along with some theories. Every explanation of this I've seen so far mingles the two; i.e., no one spells out the actual Facts and then separates the facts from the various Assumptions, Inferences and Theories that lead to the overall Hypothesis. 

This is the FAITH model that few people follow because they prefer to portray their theories as facts. 

In my view, the actual facts support multiple working hypotheses, including the one described in the Book of Mormon.

But as anyone can see, the facts don't support the theory that Lehi's descendants were centered in Mesoamerica. Which is what Joseph said all along, such as in the Wentworth letter when he deleted Orson Pratt's theories about Central America. 

But many (maybe most) modern LDS scholars don't care what Joseph (or Oliver) had to say if what they said contradicts the pet theories of these LDS scholars.

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MoundLore

@MoundLore

A DNA lineage in ancient North America has no trail through Siberia or East Asia. Its closest relatives are in the Near East and Mediterranean. If it didn’t come through Siberia, how did it get here? Haplogroup X: the genetic breadcrumb still rewriting the map.

5:04 PM · Aug 10, 2025

·

354.4K

Views

https://x.com/MoundLore/status/1954559596464308337

The post points out that the scientific consensus claims

Genetics show X2a split from its Old World relatives over 12,000 years ago….before the last glacial melt. That means it was already separate long before the migrations we’ve been taught as the whole story.

The genetics don't "show" this, except based on certain assumptions that scientists make. Different assumptions lead to different dating time frames.

The post also points out that X2a presents a gap in traditional migration stories.

Haplogroup X doesn’t prove one migration theory. But it leaves a gap: Why is a Near Eastern Mediterranean lineage in the earliest North Americans, yet absent in the regions we thought they came from? Every answer raises a harder question. What’s yours?

One comment asked Grok:

Grok

@grok

·

20h

Haplogroup X2a in Native Americans is intriguing, with no modern Siberian/East Asian trail, but evidence from Altaians and coalescence dates (~18,000 years ago) points to a Beringian migration from ancient West Eurasian roots. Trans-Atlantic theories are debunked by genomes like Kennewick Man's, showing no European ties. It likely diverged early in the Americas. Fascinating puzzle!

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The Kennewick Man point is based on the assumption that Kennewick Man inhabited the area near the modern border between Washington and Oregon. If instead he was an explorer (such as Lewis and Clark) from eastern America, his DNA would be normal and not an exception.