Ideas conquered long ago

“When we are tired, we are attacked by ideas we conquered long ago." - Friedrich Nietzsche. Long ago, Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery conquered false claims that the Book of Mormon was fiction or that it came through a stone in a hat. But these old claims have resurfaced in recent years. To conquer them again, we have to return to what Joseph and Oliver taught.

Friday, May 29, 2026

"Too far" according to the M2Cers

Brant Gardner and the other M2Cers claim the North American setting involves distances much too far for the Nephites to travel.

Instead, the M2Cers insist the entire Book of Mormon in the New World (the so-called "Americas") took place in a limited area of Mesoamerica. Although there are a variety of M2C maps, that "limited geography" represents about 1,000 kilometers, max, where the Nephites lives for roughly 1,000 years.



By comparison, Lehi's family traveled three times that far, by themselves, not to mention their ocean voyage.



The distances in the North American setting are still less than Lehi's family traveled (again, not counting the ocean voyages).


For the M2Cers to make their model work, they have to interpret the same phrase differently depending on who says it--and when.

When Nephi writes "many days" it means hundreds to thousands of kilometers--until he reaches the New World. 

Old World (thousands of kilometers): "we did travel for the space of many days" (1 Nephi 16:15); "we had sailed for the space of many days" (1 Nephi 18:23)

New World (a few kilometers): " after we had journeyed for the space of many days we did pitch our tents" (2 Nephi 5:7)

When others use the phrase, it also means only a few kilometers. E.g., "they journeyed many days in the wilderness" (Alma 17:9) "Omer departed out of the land with his family, and traveled many days" (Ether 9:3)

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When we consider the ocean voyages, the distances are even more remarkable. Everyone agrees generally with Lehi's route in the desert of Arabia (orange) Whether you accept the M2C version (yellow line) or the North American version (red line), Lehi's party traveled around 20,000 kilometers to reach the New World. But then, according to the M2Cers, they couldn't leave an area of only roughly 1,000 kilometers.


With the Jaredites, it's similar, depending on which route you accept. The Mulekites are shown in green.










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