long ago ideas

“When we are tired, we are attacked by ideas we conquered long ago." - Friedrich Nietzsche. Long ago, Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery conquered false claims that the Book of Mormon was fiction or that it came through a stone in a hat. But these old claims have resurfaced in recent years. To conquer them again, we have to return to what Joseph and Oliver taught.

Tuesday, October 28, 2025

Grokipedia explains the origin of M2C

Grokipedia discusses Cumorah accurately, for the most part.

GOOD

- Emphasizes Letter VII

- Explains how M2C originated with RLDS scholars in early 20th century

- Explains how LDS scholars adopted M2C

NEEDS IMPROVEMENT

- The claim that "at least 230,000 people were killed" is based on an irrational assumption that the term "ten thousand" refers to an enumeration of individuals instead of a military unit. 

See https://www.lettervii.com/p/cumorah-and-population-numbers.html

Cumorah

Cumorah (/kəˈmɔːrə/) is a drumlin in Palmyra, New York, United States, where Joseph Smith said he found a set of golden plates which he also said he translated into English and published as the Book of Mormon.In the text of the Book of Mormon, "Cumorah" is a hill located in a land of the same name, which is "a land of many waters, rivers and fountains". In this hill, a Book of Mormon figure, Mormon, deposited a number of metal plates containing the record of his nation of Nephites, just prior to their final battle with the Lamanites in which at least 230,000 people were killed.Early Latter Day Saints assumed that the Cumorah in New York was the same Cumorah described in the Book of Mormon, based largely on a letter written by Oliver Cowdery (Letter VII), published in the July 1835 Messenger and Advocate and reprinted several times at the direction of Joseph Smith. In the early 20th century, scholars from the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (RLDS Church) and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) began to speculate that there were two such hills and that the final battle in the Book of Mormon took place on a hill in southern Mexico, Central America, or South America. The LDS Church has no official position on the matter, and while these hypotheses are not held by some leaders and members of the LDS Church, they are firmly espoused by others.In the official account of Joseph Smith it is stated that Manchester, Ontario County, New York, is the location of the encounter with Angel Moroni.

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