"After all we can do"

Because most M2Cers are also SITH sayers, we sometimes discuss SITH (the stone-in-the-hat theory) on this blog. 

Because I still believe what Joseph and Oliver taught about the origin and setting of the Book of Mormon, and because I think the extrinsic evidence corroborates and supports what they claimed, I occasionally post examples here.

In this case, it involves the ongoing debate about the meaning of this passage:

23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do. (2 Nephi 25:23)

If Joseph Smith translated the plates, we can expect to find helpful interpretations from his environment. And in this case, we do.

Recently Kyle Beshears posted a thoughtful analysis here: https://www.kylebeshears.com/p/the-verse-that-bothered-me. He concluded that "after" in this verse is equivalent to "despite."

I agree with him. And IMO the works of Jonathan Edwards corroborate this interpretation.

Kyle explains:

It sounds like Nephi is saying, “We know Christ will save us by grace, but we have to put forth the effort first, which is why we keep the Law.”

But I don’t think that’s the right interpretation.

LDS scholars have noticed how “after all we can do” is logical, rather than chronological, and, when put back into its original linguistic environment, means something more like “despite all we can do.”1

Note 1 reads: 

Daniel O. McClellan, “2 Nephi 25:23 in Literary and Rhetorical Context,” JBMS 29 (2020):1–19. Stephen E. Robinson earlier suggested the same when he interpreted “after”as logical rather than chronologically (i.e., that grace does not follow “all we can do” but comes regardless of “all we can do”). So Robinson: “the preposition ‘after’ in 2 Nephi 25:23 to be a preposition of separation rather than a preposition of time. It denotes logical separateness rather than temporal sequence. We are saved by grace ‘apart from all we can do’ or ‘all we can do notwithstanding,’ or even ‘regardless of all we can do’” (Believing Christ: The Parable of the Bicycle and Other Good News [Salt Lake City: Deseret, 1992], 91–92).

At first glance, it might seem strange to equate "after" with "despite."

Because so much of the Book of Mormon language apparently quotes and/or draws from the works of Jonathan Edwards (see https://www.mobom.org/jonathan-edwards}, I was curious how Edwards used the term. I came up with the following examples among many more of him using "after" to mean "despite."

These are easily found at edwards.yale.edu:

In opposition to this, the Apostle says, "We Jews, after all our glorying in our distinction, were by nature children of wrath, as well as the rest of the world." And a yet further evidence, that the Apostle here means to include the Jews, and even himself, is the universal term he uses, "Among whom also we ALL had our conversation," etc. 

Yet after all my sorrows, I trust through grace, this day and the exercises of it have been for my good, and taught me more of my corruption, and weakness without Christ, than I knew before.

And her heart felt pleased and satisfied it should be so, although of late she had often found her heart rise and quarrel with God because he would, if he pleased, send her to hell after all she had done, or could do to save herself, etc.; and added that the heavy burden she had lain under was now removed:

Nor will it be the main business of that council to judge whether or no I should fairly continue the pastor of this church, if the people, after all fair means used and all proper steps taken to effect an accommodation, should finally desire that I should not be their pastor.

The man tries a great while to be a means of his own salvation, by his own strength to change and sanctify his own heart, and by his righteousness to engage God to show mercy to him: but now he is quite discouraged; the heart gives out and gives up such endeavors; he finds by experience after all his trials, that his heart is as hard as ever.

And God won't act at all cruelly and hardly if, after all your prayers and all your striving, he should let you alone to drop into hell. It would not be any reflection at all upon his mercy, nor would he in the least come short of those declarations of his mercy which he has made in his Word

It is also agreeable to a Scripture way of speaking when it is said, "He shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren," to understand it that they, after all their opposition to it, shall see him still subsisting, and retaining his own habitation in spite of them.

But are we to expect this, dear Sir, that Satan will ever find means to bring things to that pass, that after all the increase of light that has been in the world since the Reformation, there shall be a return of a more dark time than in the depth of the darkness of popery, before the Reformation, when the church of God shall be nearer to a total extinction,

But dear Sir, though your circumstances are difficult, and your temptations great, yet let me entreat you once to look back on what you have laid down; and after all your positiveness and high charge, to suffer in yourself a little reflection and exercise of reason.

  living from day to day without one spark of true love to the God of infinite glory, and fountain of all good, their having greater complacence in the little vile things of this world than in him, their living in a rejection of Christ, with all his glorious benefits, and dying love; and after all the exhibitions of his glory and grace, having their hearts still as cold as a stone towards him; their living in such ingratitude for the infinite mercy of his laying down his life for sinners.

They ben't really and thoroughly convinced, after all that is said, that there is any such thing as heaven or hell or any such being as God. There is none of all the talk about another world and a future judgment that seems real to them. 

After all my attainments in knowledge and wisdom, yet all signified nothing to remove or avoid the troubles and sorrows of the world, to mend it or make it better, or to find out any way to remove the vexation, or to seek satisfaction from it. 

Next, I asked Grok what it thought. First, it told me that "after" is not a synonym for "despite." After I gave it the Edwards examples, it replied.

These Jonathan Edwards examples further support the historical point.

Edwards (1703–1758) wrote in the 18th century, slightly earlier than the 19th-century sources in the Kyle Beshears article, but in the same broad Anglo-American Protestant rhetorical tradition. In many of these passages, “after” functions concessively—roughly equivalent to “despite,” “even after,” “notwithstanding,” or “for all.” It highlights the insufficiency or futility of human effort, striving, or circumstances in light of God’s sovereignty, grace, or larger reality.

Quick breakdown of your examples

Here’s how the concessive sense appears:

“We Jews, after all our glorying in our distinction, were by nature children of wrath...”

→ Despite all our boasting/pride in being distinct.

“Yet after all my sorrows, I trust through grace...”

→ Despite/all my sorrows notwithstanding.

“...send her to hell after all she had done, or could do...”

→ Despite everything she had done or could do (classic insufficiency-of-works theme).

“...if the people, after all fair means used...”

→ Despite all proper/fair efforts having been made.

“...he finds by experience after all his trials, that his heart is as hard as ever.”

→ Despite all his efforts/trials.

“...after all your prayers and all your striving...”

→ Even after/despite all that.

“...they, after all their opposition to it...”

→ Despite all their opposition.

“...after all the increase of light that has been...”

→ Despite all the progress in light/knowledge.

“...after all your positiveness and high charge...”

→ Despite all your strong assertions.

“...after all the exhibitions of his glory and grace...”

→ Despite all those displays.

“They ben't really... convinced, after all that is said...”

→ Despite everything that has been said.

“After all my attainments in knowledge and wisdom...”

→ Despite all my achievements.

This usage is idiomatic and rhetorical, common in religious writing of the period to underscore humility before God: no matter how much we do, strive, know, or suffer, it doesn’t change the fundamental reality (e.g., our need for grace, God’s sovereignty, the hardness of the heart).

Important caveats (same as before)

This is not standard modern English. Today, “after all [effort]” more often sounds temporal (“following all that effort”) or summative (“when everything is considered”).

It works best in fixed or semi-fixed phrases like “after all we/I/they can do,” “after all [noun],” or “after all that...”

It’s a contextual/historical nuance, not proof that “after” and “despite” are broadly interchangeable synonyms.

Edwards’ style is dense and theological, so these fit the pattern seen in the Book of Mormon analysis: 18th–19th century religious prose often used “after” this way to emphasize that human achievement falls short and grace (or divine will) prevails despite it.

This strengthens the case for that older usage without overturning the general modern distinction. Great examples—thanks for sharing them!