long ago ideas

“When we are tired, we are attacked by ideas we conquered long ago." - Friedrich Nietzsche. Long ago, Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery conquered false claims that the Book of Mormon was fiction or that it came through a stone in a hat. But these old claims have resurfaced in recent years. To conquer them again, we have to return to what Joseph and Oliver taught.

Tuesday, January 21, 2020

Moroni's mistaken journey

The standard dogma of M2C (the Mesoamerican/two-Cumorahs theory) has Moroni hauling one set of plates, plus the breastplate and interpreters, from Mesoamerica to western New York.

This journey would "pose no difficulty whatsoever" according to FairMormon.


You ought to read the explanation at that link to see for yourself.

Another great one is on the web page of BMAF, the corporate owner of Book of Mormon Central.

[Some people still don't realize that Book of Mormon Central is merely a front for the M2C advocating organization Book of Mormon Archaeological Forum.]


The trip from Mesoamerica to western New York is about 2,600 miles, if you travel fairly straight over land.

Most people wonder, if this 42-year trip was so easy for Moroni, why was the entire civilization of the Nephites confined to a much smaller area in Mesoamerica for 1,000 years?

The answer is easy: The disparity is the only way to make M2C make sense.

M2C is pure bias confirmation based on a mistake in Church history. It doesn't have to be logical, or even rational. It doesn't require evidence. It doesn't even have to fit the text, because if you believe M2C, you can add anything you need to the text, including volcanoes, massive stone pyramids, jade, jungles, jaguars, etc.

Then, after traveling so far, Moroni stopped at an insignificant, nondescript drumlin, built a stone box, and put the plates and other objects inside.

If you accept the M2C dogma that such a journey circa 400 AD poses "no difficulty whatsoever," we need to ask, why didn't Moroni go the extra 300 miles to Sharon, Vermont?

According to the Saints book, it took the eruption of a volcano in Indonesia to move Joseph Smith's family from Vermont to New York.

The eruption caused temperatures in India to drop, and cholera killed thousands, destroying families. In fertile Chinese valleys, summer snowstorms replaced a normally mild climate and flooding rains destroyed crops. In Europe, food supplies dwindled, leading to starvation and panic.


All this destruction could have been avoided if Moroni had gone just another 300 miles. After all, 2600 miles was no problem. Another 300 miles would have been a walk in the park.


Alternatively, of course, Moroni might have buried the plates at the Hill Cumorah; i.e., at the scene of the final battles and the repository of Nephite records.

That's what Joseph and Oliver taught in Letter VII.

In that case, it would make sense to move Joseph's family to New York from Vermont, by whatever means necessary--including a volcano.


  1. You forgot to include a side trip into Utah to dedicate the land for the temples.

  2. Brother Neville,

    Surely in advocating your School of Thought regarding a NY Cumorah you will not ignore or repudiate the Prophets (First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles) when they said last year:

    "Individuals may have their own opinions regarding Book of Mormon geography and other such matters about which the Lord has not spoken. However, the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles urge leaders and members not to advocate those personal theories in any setting or manner that would imply either prophetic or Church support for those theories."

    As a reader I can only conclude that your continued reference to "what Joseph and Oliver taught" and to "Letter VII" flies in the face of the First Presidency's request that you not advocate in ANY setting or manner that implies prophetic or Church support for your teachings. I'm confident the Brethren are not pleased when members disregard their statements just because they think they are right.

    It is disingenuous and unhelpful to your readers when you urge us to listen to Joseph and Oliver but you yourself ignore Russell, Dallin and Henry. I'm confident Joseph Smith winces every time you use his name as a battering ram to break down the door of the First Presidency and help them get it right.